Double Slotting Metamagic

[Niko_Kaze]

Just an idea for a variant rule for metamagic.
The caster use lower level slots to "prepare" metamagic. To do this he prepares (or expends) a spell slot equal to the metamagic feat he wants to use + 1 (so a silent, still, or extend metamagic would use a second level slot, quicken would use up a fifth level slot). Whenever the spellcaster casts a spell he wants to affect with the metamagic he expends the slot he stored the metamagic in too.
Example:
William the 11th level wizard wants to use some metamagic but isn't sure which spells he'll want to metamagic. Instead of using higher level slots he instead decides to prepare metamagic for the day.
He has an intelligence of 18 (to make this easier) and the following spell slots 5 first 5 second 5 third 4 fourth 2 fifth 1 sixth, and the following metamagic feats: Quicken, extend, maximize, still, silent
He prepares the following:
1st
Mage Armor x 2, Ray of Enfeeblement, Enlarge person, grease
2nd
Still Spell, Extend Spell, Silent Spell, Glitterdust, Mirror Image
3rd
Blink, haste x 2, Ray of Exhaustion, Dispel Magic
4th
Stoneskin, black tentacles, D. Door, Maximize
5th
Summon Monster 5, Quicken
6th
Disintegrate
His 11th level sorcerer friend, Joules on the other hand just decides to burn two first level slots to extend her mage armor spell for the day. Later on she really wants to cast two lightning bolts in one turn so she burns a 3rd level slot for the first one then a 5th and 3rd level slot for a quickened one (5th for the quicken spell metamagic, 3rd for the spell that's being cast).

If the combined spell level total of the spells slots involved is greater then nine then that combination cannot be done.
This would mean you couldn't use this system to metamagic 8th or 9th level spells (since 8 + 2 (minimum metamagic level) = 10 > 9).

I could see limiting this further so that a spellcaster can't use it on spells equal to his highest spell level - 1 (so the above 11th level wizard couldn't metamagic his 6th level spells). With my suggestion as it stands right now, I would limit it to just one metamagic effect from a prepared slot (couldn't maximize and empower unless it was prepared as either maximized or empowered).

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Thoughts on why to include this idea:
1. It gives spellcasters more flexibility to use metamagic.
2. It still costs something to use the metamagic (you burn spells faster).
3. Lower level slots that have "less use" at higher levels can instead be used to better effect.

[Niko_Kaze]

So any thoughts on this?

[Niko_Kaze]

Any at all really!

[Barrok]

Im just trying to work it out in my head - sop I'll respond properly tomorrow to it (insomnia)

[PhilZee]

I think this would perfectly fine as a feat. I would personally make sure there are prereqs for using this as a feat, such as knowledge of a(n) metamagic feat, or something else equally important.

[RafeIxeian]

Is level 3 + level 5 spell really equivalent to a level 8? Most people would say no, so if you assume the original method is balanced, the use of your mechanic seems to mean the cost of metamagic is reduced overall.

At the same time, I do like the concept, but would not be sure about preparing the extra slots with metamagic, personally. Reduced total prepped spell count -> less versatility. Which makes me wonder about my comment above... I'll think on it, and if I have more to say, I'll be back.

[Niko_Kaze]

Actually RafeIxeian you've hit the whole thing in one shot:

level 3 + level 5 probably isn't exactly equal to an 8th level spell, but you got less you can cast over all this way too which carries its own cost.

For this to would (to address PhilZee's concern) you would still need to take the metamagic feat -- you don't automatically know them. Once you know the metamagic feat however then I would (personally) allow this.

[The Speaker in Dreams]

I really like this.

I've always hated the mechanic of meta-magic feats. Every other feat is something that just "is" and for magic, no such luck.

What's more is that certain things are simply not possible to use with meta-magic as the numbers only go to 9th level spells. Depending on your application of metamagic, you may not be able to use it w/spells - that sucks. It means you have a feat that is fundamentally FAR more limited that nearly every other feat.

However, this option you've created works around that quite nicely. I think it's fairly ingenious in design and elegant in how it makes use of what already exists. You trade off versatility (ie: prepared spells) in order to have meta-magic "on hand" and ready to go. Sure you lose the lower level spells, but you can now apply your feat to, essentially, any spell you'd like to apply it to. This sounds much more fair to me, and it makes meta-magic and mages in general more appealing to me. Half of the reason I've always avoided them (beyond outrageously long skill lists) was that their feats freakin' nerf their casting potential. They already have almost no slots/limited use of magic, so killing them on increasing spell level is so detrimental, IMO. This, though, is reasonable - sacrifice some existing spells in order to enhance one of your remaining spells. Very nice, very clean, and very useful.

I like this a lot.

:top:

[RafeIxeian]

I made a mistake in my earlier post. I compared a level 8 spell to a 3+5, when really I should have compared a level 7, which is more balanced based on the numbers, but even less tempting to use.

I think something like this may not be too bad, actually.

[Niko_Kaze]

The main reason for the increased cost on the metamagic is the extra versitility on what you can use it on:

Once you've burned a fifth level slot for quicken spell for example, you can use that on any other spell you have memorized...

This might be a little iffy on the 6th + spell levels but you are still eating 2 spell slots and 10+ spell levels to have that effect which cuts down on what else you can do.

In the end I'm not fully convinced that metamagic is really worth it most of the time anyways (I don't really think an Quickened fireball is worth a seventh level spell slot, especially when the DC and damage hasn't been increased).